Unknown Speaker 0:00
Alright guys, today I'm with Aaron Kenney. She is the author of rewire your gut. She has several podcasts. She's a registered dietitian with home base in Boston.
Unknown Speaker 0:12
And we're going to talk today about different things related to the gut, hopefully get into a little bit about fasting and just some of the different things she does, because she's got a really interesting approach to nutrition. So I'm really excited to talk with her. And thanks. Can you give us a brief introduction?
Unknown Speaker 0:29
Absolutely. So as you mentioned, I'm a registered dietician. On top of that, I have a master's degree in nutrition. And I really nerd out on science, one of my favorite things to talk about. I'm also a certified personal trainer and a Holistic Cannabis practitioner. So I have really taken my practice to the next level, and really focus on addressing the root cause of why people don't feel well, whether it's gut imbalances, hormone imbalances, thyroid, to help them feel better. And I'm also very passionate about the mental health aspect of it as well.
Unknown Speaker 1:10
I feel like if you're gonna do gut things, you have to be passionate about the mental health side, right? Like they're just tangled together, physiologically and more. You cannot talk about one without talking about the other. Yeah. So, um, just so I can better understand your practice and what you do. Are you primarily an online based practitioner, like you do most your stuff? Yes. So I was probably 70%, online, and then the other person, mostly in person, and then after the pandemic, I just went 100%, virtual. And it's been really great for my practice. I work with clients all over the country, not even just the United States. And I really niche mostly in gut health. That's my expertise, really stemming from my own journey with having my own gut issues. And also, just because the gut is where 80% of your immune system is, it controls so much of your overall health. And so yes, to answer your question in a long winded way, that is 100% virtual now? No, but let's Yeah, let's just dive into that. So the book is rewire your gut. What does that mean to you? Where did the idea come from? And what what is it about?
Unknown Speaker 2:29
Yes, absolutely. So the entire concept of rewiring in general, my business. So I'm the owner of nutrition rewired, which is my business name. And this entire concept of rewiring, really does stem from my own journey of healing my own gut. So from a very young age, I was exposed to, you know, lots of trauma and stress, lots of antibiotic use different toxins. And through my own journey of healing, I was really focusing on getting to the root cause. So my issues were very much rooted,
Unknown Speaker 3:08
you know, in again, some of these these main issues and creating new thought patterns, rewiring the way that I viewed, obtaining optimal health and how I approach health is kind of where I came to the name, roof, nutrition rewired. And so I had I had digestive issues, but I also had mental health struggles. And so creating these new circuits and new patterns around how I was going to be healing was ultimately what led me to where I am today, and why I decided to come up with that name. Gotcha. So did you start as a dietitian, or did you start on the personal training side? Like how did you? How did you tackle this problem that you were looking to address?
Unknown Speaker 3:55
So I, when I was in, I was actually still in school when I was addressing my own health issues. And it's actually why I decided to go to school for nutrition, I really, there was nothing I was passionate about. At the time, I was a full time athlete for most of my life. So school wasn't there was nothing I was, I really got excited about. I liked sports, I liked being active.
Unknown Speaker 4:19
And so when I went to college, the reason why I chose nutrition was because I figured you know, if I'm if I'm wanting to learn more about my body and heal my own body, I may as well you know, invest in that. So it started in the Nutrition Wellness space, and I actually did think that maybe I would go into personal training and I did obtain my certification at that time and started my Instagram you know, really liked cooking and whatnot. But but when I first chose a career, it was it was dietetics I did go and right out of school, becoming a dietitian, but I did at one point think that I would just be
Unknown Speaker 5:00
A personal trainer or, you know, maybe a physical therapist, but I realized that my true passion stemmed through the power of healing with food. And obviously, I still focus on the physical aspect of it. And I do coach clients on personal training, and I can create, you know, new nutrition and exercise plans together. Yeah. And I think, you know, obviously, those two things go together, that's, as a physical therapist, that's why I'm so interested in nutrition side. You know, so many of our patients with chronic pain or some type of mental health component to their to their pain issues. Almost always there's a systemic inflammatory component to that, where, you know, they hurt everywhere kind of thing. And almost always that comes down to the gut, right? Like, a lot of the times there is some digestive issue belly pain going on with with whatever else, they're there in my office four, which is what led me down this.
Unknown Speaker 6:00
Alright, what's going on with all these gut health issues? Why does it you know, all my people with chronic pain and fibromyalgia why do they also have your double bow or, you know, pick your pick your diagnosis? And then from my own standpoint, as well, right, we're always trying to improve the way we feel as well. So it's super interesting to me, for somebody that's not
Unknown Speaker 6:21
hasn't done as much homework on how the gut in mental health kind of link? What is your what is your opinion there? What I've looked at some of the research personally, but how do you couch that the clients? How do you talk about their, the interchange between the two.
Unknown Speaker 6:37
When I talk to clients about it, I will usually kind of start to spark their memory of their own experiences of you know, when you had to give a presentation did you kind of have that butterflies in your stomach type of feeling, or, you know, making the connection of when I'm really stressed, I'm more constipated, you know, just kind of making those every day, more obvious connections with them. And then I kind of start to explain the science of how your brain and your gut are physically connected through the vagus nerve, which carries an extensive range of signals from the digestive system to the brain. And then I start to talk about how the gut produces serotonin and GABA and melatonin, you know, these neurotransmitters that make us feel good, and how those impacts the gut and the brain. And then I talked about how 80% of your immune system is located in your gut and how any sort of immune dysfunction your gut will send signals to the brain. So starting with the everyday stuff, we all can think of examples maybe we haven't pieced together, you know that those symptoms are correlated with higher levels of stress, or happiness or sadness, things like that. But then I will start talking about the science. And you know, they always find that interesting and fascinating to know, especially if you're someone who struggles with mental health issues. I mean, it can be so motivating to know that there is actually something that you can do dietary wise to help support your mental health issues. Yeah, I was wondering like chicken or egg kind of question, right? Like, does the high sympathetic state high stress caused the gut issues? Or do you start to get do you get exposed to something that causes gut and then that leads to different mental health issues?
Unknown Speaker 8:34
What are your thoughts on that? I mean, I, I'm sure it's a scenario based answer. But
Unknown Speaker 8:41
I would say there, both scenarios would be true. Absolutely. If you have some, let's say you had like a big blow to your gut, maybe it's high high doses of antibiotics. Or maybe you took NSAIDs for a significant amount of time, or you weren't breastfed from a very young age. You know, there are certain things that definitely, you know, can predispose you to mental health issues or gut issues.
Unknown Speaker 9:12
And then, you know, we see research that says people with autoimmune conditions have higher levels of Prevotella bacteria in the gut. And as you said, is it the chicken or the egg? I don't necessarily know the exact answer to that. But I would say that it's definitely true that you could probably be set up for I'm not going to call it failure but set up for these chronic conditions by having, you know, an imbalance of bacteria in the gut. And then also, you know, certain conditions can alter your gut. So I don't have a unfortunately like an exact answer isn't the chicken or the egg, but both the chicken and the egg matters? Yeah. So as a as a baseline, this idea of bacteria in the gut and this imbalance of bacteria. How does that happen?
Unknown Speaker 10:00
happen? And then what are some of the steps? As far as baseline steps that people need to look at, as far as you know, what are the steps you need to take to fix things.
Unknown Speaker 10:10
There are many things that can cause imbalance in the gut. And I mean, if you look at the research and how many different things influence the gut stress, I would say, I like to bring that one up the most, because it really is a silent killer. Like that's what people will turn, especially in the medical field, they'll say, you know, stress is the silent killer, it really is. When I say stress, I'm talking about mental but I'm also talking about physical dietary stress, you know, nutrient deficiencies, just improper diet and proper blood sugar balance, antibiotic use and Said's different types of medications. If you look at the, you know, the, if you ever picked up a medication from the pharmacy, and they give you that little packet that no one actually reads, right, there's always a disclaimer of here are the side effects. And there's always a GI symptom listed. Because no matter what you put in your system, especially those types of pharmaceuticals, they do impact the gut microbiome. And then we have certain toxins, heavy metals, like lead, cadmium, arsenic, we have things like endocrine disrupters, which can also alter the gut bacteria. We have some research that looks at glyphosate. You know, one of the the weed killers that, you know, we use for agricultural purposes, we have the type of water that you're drinking might have P FAS, these types of chemicals, or also heavy metals. So I'm trying to think if there's anything else I would add to that toxins, diet, medications, and yeah, your mental health. Those are some really big influencers on the gut. Yeah. You mentioned breastfeeding earlier, which is caught my attention because we got two little ones at home right now I got a two and a half year old who had all kinds of belly issues.
Unknown Speaker 12:09
Which got me into reading about gut microbiome for infants and toddlers and stuff. We ended up cutting, my wife was breastfeeding, so we cut dairy, my dairy, my wife stopped eating dairy, and then everything got better.
Unknown Speaker 12:24
But she's still I feel struggles with some different our daughter struggles with some different belly issues. And then we got a newborn who is currently breastfeeding. Right. So that's always an interest. But what, what, again, I tried to read that stuff, but I don't have that background, right. My background comes from physical therapy. So I understand inflammatory markers and cytokines as it relates to the pain. But when I start reading gut microbiome literature, it's like, this is this gets over my head real quick.
Unknown Speaker 12:53
There's a lot it's intense. And, and I will say that, you know, not to discourage people because there are a lot of people who can't breastfeed. It's it's obviously a very personal experience. But I mean, even before you are addressing breastfeeding, like when you're when the fetus is in utero, I mean, we are starting to develop the trajectory of their gut microbiome even before that. So it was actually thought in research that it's only once the baby is born, that we start to develop, like what their gut microbiome looks like. But now there's research that says that what a mother does when she's pregnant is are already starting to change the microbiome of what that child's gut for biome looks like. So I attended a webinar recently, and they were talking about the benefits of taking probiotics throughout pregnancy, I won't go too much into it. But when you are breastfed, for example, the way that you're born, we'll start there. If you're vaginally born versus C section, vaginal birth, your gut microbiome will then end up looking like the microbiome of the mother. If you are born via C section, you skip that process, you are then going to have a what they've seen as a less diverse microbiome, right? Because you're opened up into the delivery room. And they've shown that the bacteria of the child and the gut microbiome of the child born via C section will mimic that of the delivery room. Now, what I will say is promising is that they've shown that the microbiome of that individual born via C section might actually catch up like it at first isn't so great. So you might, you know, not be so great in the first few months of life. But I forget, I forget what the time period is, but they've seen that you might actually be able to catch up and breastfeeding can definitely help that because breast milk contains immunoglobulins that regulate a baby's immune system. It contains prebiotic fibers. So these beneficial types of carbohydrates that feed the beneficial gut back
Unknown Speaker 15:00
Kiria and then of course, we have all the other nutrients that are in it that were obviously designed for optimal growth of the brain, the gut, the microbiome, and things like that. So those first few years of life are really essential to setting someone up for you know, reducing the risk of asthma or arthritis, different autoimmune diseases, setting them up for food sensitivities, and allergies, obesity, even.
Unknown Speaker 15:29
So it's it's a, it's a long, long journey of kind of things that we're exposed to and practices of life that impact what our gut microbiome looks like. So wild to me, like the differences between even a, you know, vaginal birth versus C section, like, it's crazy.
Unknown Speaker 15:48
And no, it's in we've had one of each our daughter was, was born naturally. And then we had a C section the second time. And it'll be interesting to see, like, you know, how, how one child gets sick versus the other versus got, you know, I don't know, the whole thing is, but they were talking about, I asked, I asked my clients on their intake form, what method of birth they were born, and they're always like, Why do you ask that? And I'm like, honestly, I'm kind of doing my own research study where I'm, and I do see, like, I see a lot of people who are born via C section, and I see some, you know, mental health, you know, similarities between them. It's not a death sentence by any means. But it's just interesting. You know, you see the difference that we we've noticed in the literature, and it is it's, it's fascinating. And I mean, the flipside to this whole conversation is if we didn't have C section as an option, right, you would see less infant mortality would go up, right? So Oh, yeah. You know, it's not that it's bad thing. It's just, it's, yeah, interesting. Yes, I had done some reading about right now. And for whatever reason, I'm into this insulin resistance phase, and I'm reading all about that kind of stuff. And even looking at insulin sensitivity for infants in risk of obesity, based on maternal maternal obesity, and how insulin sensitive the mom was, and what that leads to the infant's insulin sensitivity, and, you know, glucose regulation and stuff.
Unknown Speaker 17:19
Again, just, you know, I had a professor, he used to say, choose your parents wisely. And
Unknown Speaker 17:27
it rings true.
Unknown Speaker 17:29
It really is true. I mean, there, there is so much, like I said that, that that webinar I attended, I mean, people were joining to learn more about, you know, what the child can do. And what they ended up learning more about was what the mom can do. And there's a lot of pressure on us, you know, as females, but at the end of the day, you know, when you start thinking about pregnancy, I always tell my clients this, I say, you know, are you are you ever interested in having children? They're like, Yeah, but not for another two years or so I say, well, we got to start thinking about it now. Like, this is the time to start, you know, eating well, making sure your guts healthy address any thyroid issues, like the time is now not, you know, two years down the road when it happens if we can, you know, there's Yeah, humans. So
Unknown Speaker 18:16
the balance is very unfair between men and women in parenting, as far as like Chopra. Like we really don't. Yeah. It's it's a very unfair equation.
Unknown Speaker 18:26
Yeah, but I've heard like the opposite side of like men saying things like they're kind of jealous of the experience, and you know, things like that. And so I don't know, some people look at different ways I can, I can sympathize with both. If I said that to my wife, she would just punch me in the face probably.
Unknown Speaker 18:44
I don't have kids yet. I haven't gotten the job. So I could imagine that wouldn't
Unknown Speaker 18:50
be a great topic of conversation. Yeah, I'm not gonna bring that one up. No.
Unknown Speaker 18:58
So again, doing kind of so in my own research, it, it's interesting how different foods and different diet plans may affect the gut microbiome.
Unknown Speaker 19:08
And so again, not talking specific with Danny conditions, but how do like, you know,
Unknown Speaker 19:16
say, a carnivore diet where people are keto diet, where it's a more higher protein, higher fat kind of composition diet versus somebody that's doing, you know, standard American diet versus, you know, a grain based or even a vegetarian type diet? How would those kind of gross differences affect the gut microbiome? Mm hmm, great question. With the carnivore diet, you're lacking a lot of those prebiotics, right? So you're not going to see lots of fruits and vegetables and whole grains. And those groups of foods are feeders, those feed bacteria they keep bacteria alive. And so
Unknown Speaker 19:57
when you're on more of a carnivore style diet
Unknown Speaker 20:00
Which what they've seen the research is that it just, it can create a less diverse gut microbiome. But it really depends on what the person's debt was when they started the diet, like if someone had, for example, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and then they started a carnivore diet. So they're not feeding that overgrowth anymore, they might look at that person's gut microbiome and say, Oh, it looks really good, really healthy, because they're masking a root cause symptom, if that makes sense. With a plant based diet, you're eating lots of fiber, you're eating lots of prebiotic foods, which are going to feed the bacteria. So what we would suspect, you know, and what we've seen in the research is that creates a more diverse gut microbiome because it's food for the bacteria that live there, and it's keeping them alive. And what happens is, is once they're they're in the small intestine, and then they move to the large intestine, they become those fibers and those on digested plant sources, they become food and they ferment. And that creates different byproducts like short chain fatty acids, and butyrate, which helped to reduce inflammation in the gut and strengthen the gut lining. So the main difference is that with a carnivore diet, meat and animal products, they don't they're not feeders of bacteria, per se. I mean, that's not there's more to that than just that sentence, but they don't, they're not serving as a prebiotic. They don't feed those bacteria, so they have less of an impact on the bacterial compositions. Whereas a plant based diet really does it would it would typically cause more diversity in the gut, because there's more feeding going on? If that makes sense. It does. It does. Um, can you clarify what SIBO is, all of a sudden, I'm hearing about it all the time. I feel like I never heard about it. And now I've heard about it mentioned just multiple times in the last six months. So what is it in, and then I want to circle back to what we're talking about earlier? Absolutely. SIBO is actually quite common, and it is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. It's exactly what it sounds like. When we look at the GI tract, we have the small intestine, and then right below it is a large intestine, and that's when food exits the body. Now, the bacteria that we are talking about in SIBO, are bacteria that have migrated from the large intestine, the lower part into the small intestine, so they've moved up, and they are sitting in a place that they shouldn't be. And so that's an issue because what happens in the small intestine is we produce or sorry, we absorb a lot of nutrients and vitamins, that's the main place where we absorb B, 12, and iron and zinc and all those vitamins. And when you have disruption in that environment, we can start to see nutrient deficiencies. And there's a lot of fermentation going on, I mentioned how, when the food gets to the lower part of the GI tract, it ferments. Now if things are fermenting where they shouldn't be, we're going to see gas, we're going to see bloating, we're going to start to see maybe anxiety and depression, because again that, you know gut brain connection, we might start to see more food sensitivities. So it's, it's a, it's a very common thing. But it's also you know, associated with some not so great health outcomes down the road, especially because like I mentioned, we have these bacteria where they shouldn't be and that can create inflammation in the body.
Unknown Speaker 23:44
So is that why like when people talk about carnivore or they talk about a whole 30 or other elimination, classification of diet? Do you think that's what's happening that people are finding success with these diets? Is it's eliminating some of these bacteria overgrowth?
Unknown Speaker 24:00
Or do you think it's more of a food sensitivity allergy thing?
Unknown Speaker 24:06
So with with a carnivore diet, that is kind of my hypothesis with SIBO is these people could have SIBO. And what they're doing is they're just finding that if they just don't feed them at all, then that won't be an issue. They're they're treating that symptom with the whole 30. And those types of diets. I think the reason that those work are because they do address some of the most common sensitivities, so soy, dairy, gluten, processed, sugars, alcohol, you know, nobody feels great when they you know, consume those things. A true low FODMAP diet. Have you ever heard of the low FODMAP diet before? I have, but go ahead and I've heard of it. I don't know that I know his details. I should so if you could explain it, that'd be great. Yeah, so for your listeners, listeners, the the FODMAPs are a group of
Unknown Speaker 25:00
type of carbohydrate that are, again, those feeders, they, they are under digested really they're poorly digested in the gut, and they then feed the bacteria. And if you have an overgrowth, we don't want to keep feeding those bacteria if you're uncomfortable if you have symptoms. So a carnivore diet and a low FODMAP diet would be two examples of diets that are not feeding those bacteria. The whole 30 elimination style diets, those are really more designed for people that are looking to identify food sensitivities consume, the whole 30, I would say specifically is consuming less processed foods. But actually, most elimination diets, you're consuming less processed foods. So overall, I think people feel better for multiple reasons. But it's also more so just addressing major allergens or major food sensitivities, like the ones I mentioned.
Unknown Speaker 25:55
What is the like, what is a food sensitivity, like when people are like, Oh, I'm sensitive to this. And like, I know myself personally, I did a our family does this like silly Weight Loss Challenge almost every year between Thanksgiving in Easter. And we have to do it every year, because nobody keeps the weight off. So we just run it back every year.
Unknown Speaker 26:17
I have a cousin that calls it the fat tax, like you just pay it every year.
Unknown Speaker 26:22
But that's beside the point.
Unknown Speaker 26:25
I so the one year I did a paleo whole 30 style that was like kind of what I did. This is probably going back at least eight years. And when I reintroduced dairy and gluten, you know, I had lost some weight, my skin cleared up, my blood pressure had dropped. And then I reintroduce dairy and gluten and like my stomach hurts, my blood pressure comes back up. I'm sweating all the time. And I was like, Oh, this is weird. And so I've kind of recreated many experiments, and I probably haven't done gluten or dairy for, you know, a good five, maybe more years. At this point. What is a, you know, I don't think I've seen like, so I'm getting kind of like weird digestive stuff, it just, I don't feel as good.
Unknown Speaker 27:09
sinus infections were the other thing I was on medications constantly. And I haven't had a sinus infection. And since I stopped doing dairy,
Unknown Speaker 27:17
what is a food sensitivity. And then what are the differences between this, you know, idea of a bacterial or gut microbiome imbalance, versus you're dealing with a food sensitivity in how that relates to inflammation.
Unknown Speaker 27:32
So these imbalances can actually create food sensitivities, leading into what a food sensitivity is, it doesn't actually have a standard medical definition. Sometimes it's referred to as a food intolerance. So like an IgG, or an IGA response. And these food sensitivities are actually much more common among people who have conditions like irritable bowel syndrome. And the thought there, well, the science there really is that when you have any sort of stress or irritation in the gut, that can lead to leaky gut. And that is now a recognized medical diagnosis is is intestinal hyper permeability. So if you think of, you know, a tube, let's say it's like a hose, for example, as your digestive tract, if you were to puncture little holes in that, you know, and that hose water would come through the hose where it's not supposed to be. So that means that that in your gut, things would be moving from your gut into your bloodstream, and they're not supposed to be there. So I say this to clients all the time, because they say, I'm sensitive to this, and I'm sensitive to that. And then when we heal their gut, they're saying, Oh, I It feels like I can tolerate you know, dairy more or, and of course, it depends on the type right? I have, I have tons of clients who cannot eat cheese, but can eat a fermented kefir, for example.
Unknown Speaker 29:06
But back to the point of the food sensitivities, if you have any sort of gut inflammation or intestinal hyperpermeability your immune system is is reacting to the fact that something that was in your digestive tract moved into the blood and should not have been there. And so the goal there is to heal and seal up that gut reduce the inflammation and then optimally, you would, you know, have a food sensitivity that would would not irritate you any more. Now, food sensitivity testing has become super common. And unfortunately, it's just not recommended by the major, you know, organizations who specialize in food allergies, they have not found enough evidence to support the use of these types of tests. So elimination diet is really the standard protocol.
Unknown Speaker 30:00
called. Now, you don't necessarily have to have a gut imbalance to have food sensitivity, some people have hormone imbalance and therefore soy irritates them because they are very sensitive from a hormonal perspective, there are some people who have thyroid issues, and therefore, they might not do well with gluten because gluten, the protein in gluten looks very similar to the thyroid and their, their body recognizes that from an immune perspective there. So I know I'm kind of rambling again a little bit, but this is the way that nutrition and Integrative Nutrition works is it's very complicated. But food sensitivities are complex. And you mentioned GI symptoms, like I didn't have any, like significant GI symptoms, you don't have to have any GI symptoms to have a food sensitivity, you could be like you said, tired, you could have migraines, you could have a runny nose, like constant post nasal drip, you could get ear infections, you could have joint pain, those are all symptoms of food sensitivity, but the food itself isn't always the root cause of why you're reacting to it. Does that make sense? I think so. So you're, you're basically saying that, and this is super interesting to me. So the permeability of the gut, and maybe that microbiome is probably what's playing into that sensitivity, not necessarily the food itself.
Unknown Speaker 31:23
Now, often, oftentimes, that's the case that may that mean, to me that, like from my personal experience, that makes a ton of sense. Like,
Unknown Speaker 31:31
I don't know, when I was younger, like high school college, I used to do a ton of dairy, like, I used to have cottage cheese or yogurt and then go work out like it wouldn't bother me at all.
Unknown Speaker 31:41
But I also had sinus infections all the time. So like, I I've kind of weighed this, like, this just happened when I got older, or is this why I've had sinus infections my whole life. And I had sinus infections my entire life. And it was dairy for me too. And I also I work with some athletes who are like Olympic level athletes. And if you look at the research, you can induce a food sensitivity by exercising. So think of it this way. Like you just said the example of how you would eat cottage cheese and go workout you could if you eat something right before a period of stress exercise is a stress it can cause leaky gut temporarily even you can create a food sensitivity by putting a food and a stressor together and then your body remembers, okay. I was it was really stressed during that time, we're now going to kind of hyper react to this food.
Unknown Speaker 32:39
That makes sense. Very interesting. I mean, so when I was in undergrad exercise science, I there was a bunch of research that came out about how chocolate milk was like the best post workout drink, and the right composition of you know, carbohydrates and macros and stuff. And so I was doing chocolate milk after every workout, because that was like, that was the best and or muscle milk right muscle milk was the other big thing. Yeah, drank all the classic. Yeah. And then it was like five years later. It's like, Man, if I drink dairy, I
Unknown Speaker 33:10
feel so good. I'm gonna lose it. Yeah, there's a funny, you just reminded me. So I went to the University in New Hampshire. And I was at the gym a lot, because I went from being like an athlete full time. And I was like, What do I do with myself now? So I was kind of a gym rat for a while. And there was this guy at the gym who would carry around a gallon of milk, and he would crush the gallon of milk throughout the entire workout. And I remember thinking in one workout, I just remember thinking, oh my gosh, a How did you just consume that whole thing be? If I exercise with like, even the smidgen of the wrong type of food, I would be out. So yeah. What one of the CrossFit coaches that I'm good friends with, we have an office inside of his gym. He is He was doing the go mad a gallon of milk a day. Right? Like that was the
Unknown Speaker 34:04
that was what he was doing. For sure was first. Okay. All right. I gotta do more research.
Unknown Speaker 34:12
Yeah, it was a thing. I don't know if it's still a thing, but it was definitely a thing for a while there. That's too funny. I mean, does it surprise me? No. I mean, you look at some of the health trends out there. I believe it. Yep. Yep. He was big into it. We actually just talked about it on the last podcast, we recorded how he used to do that. Right. Yeah. Good. So the other side of my like, how does this leaky gut you mentioned inflammation or this
Unknown Speaker 34:42
you know, the these different things getting into the bloodstream? How does that then play into inflammation? How does that link to autoimmune disease in your opinion? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 34:52
Well, I mean, there's a ton of research that shows that the gut and autoimmune conditions are very much part
Unknown Speaker 35:00
And the reason for that is because 80% of your immune system is in your gut lining. It's the acronym is Galt, GA LT, and it's gut associated lymphatic tissue. And so, I mean, that's the most basic way of explaining it, it's just that your immune function is mostly prevalent in your GI tract. So if you have any sort of imbalance there, or inflammation going on there are going to have immune dysfunction. So the research that they look at is also including different types of bacteria and strains of bacteria that are maybe higher in patients with things like rheumatoid arthritis, or,
Unknown Speaker 35:42
you know, like lupus, for example. And so they've made these associations between the different types of bacteria in the gut. So there, there's many connections. And then also the, the point I was talking about before about how in your, the proteins and particles that are in the gut move outside the blood into the blood, those are then seen as a foreign invader. And so that's another way of activate activating the immune response as well. Yeah, that's the piece I probably think about or talk about the most is yeah, that, you know, it triggers an inflammatory response. And then obviously, that neurologic connection between the two has to play somehow or another. And you're
Unknown Speaker 36:26
you're seeing that now with these neurodegenerative diseases, right? People, we're talking about gut health, and we're talking about Alzheimer's or Parkinson's or dementias?
Unknown Speaker 36:36
What how do you think that all ties together? Again, just kind of a brief, very closely related, I mean, you know, it's, it's undeniable, the impact that the the different strains of bacteria in our gut impact, even, you know, we can talk about Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, but even just, you know, the way you're able to focus throughout your workday, or how motivated you are, I mean, though, there's a direct correlation between the two. And, you know, there's certain medications that they've done research on two, like acid reducing medications, these are ones that I see so many clients on, and these medications, they reduce stomach acid, they reduce microbial diversity, and they're associated with what may be a 90% increased risk of Alzheimer's disease. That is not a coincidence. That's not a coincidence. And so, you know, these are things that we're researching the more intense situations of like the Parkinson's, the Alzheimer's, but again, like if you're an everyday, you know, human being, you're just thinking like, gosh, I can't focus, I got brain fog, things like that. Yeah, that's connected to your gut. Absolutely. Yeah. I have been toying with intermittent fasting, right, as part of my journey down this, this road. And it's taking some kind of getting used to like the mental side of not eating all the time. But I worked glucometer for a little while, and I'm watching my blood sugar spike all day. And I was like, This can't be good for you.
Unknown Speaker 38:05
Like, I don't need, I don't need an insulin response as often.
Unknown Speaker 38:09
And so we, you know, we started doing this time restricted eating thing. And it's like, my brain clarity is better. Like it just the only time I feel that good as right after exercise, or if you get like, a week off of work, and you know, you're just kind of relaxing for a while. Those are the two times where I feel like I'm not sharp, but I can get to the end of a long clinic day. And I just, you know, yeah, I'm ready to eat or whatever. But like my, like, I feel sharp.
Unknown Speaker 38:35
And I don't know how much of that's like sympathetic driven or if it's a lack of cloudiness, like I don't know which way that is, but it's interesting to me. Are you seeing that mental clarity side with your clients?
Unknown Speaker 38:48
Oh, yeah. I mean, you just see, you know, I've seen clients who are just like, completely flat, even when we first start meeting and I'm wondering, like, you know, are they just warming up to me is it you know, and you just, you can see a personality change over the course of two months, just getting someone you know, optimally from a gut health perspective and eating well and exercising and balancing their blood sugar. Intermittent Fasting is so popular, and I mean, Dr. Longo, he's you know, the pioneer of the research and in fasting and, and I love to learn about the research there it from a, you know, practical perspective of how to implement that into a private practice setting such as my own. I don't see females doing well on intermittent fasting. Most of the time, I see it really impacting hormones negatively. I see males do really well on it. And I think a lot of that is really just do the hormone differences. And you know, when we think about what's happening during fasting as you're teaching your body to use an alternative source of fuel and you know, ketones and ketones
Unknown Speaker 40:00
You know, can produce a lot of beneficial effects in the body. And then if we talk about gut health and intermittent fasting, we do see some benefits in gut health and the research that we we've looked at how practical it is for people and what they eat, when they're not fasting, all those things are also really important to think about, because, you know, there is some research that shows that gut bacterial diversity goes down when you're fasting. But then when you refeed, you know, you get into that breaking that fast state, you actually see the benefits of the gut microbiome, for example. So people have to be, you know, really diligent about eating well, when they break the fast to not just, you know, binge binging on a bunch of fast food and stuff like that, which I'm sure you're not doing. But there are people out there that love the idea of, okay, I'll just starve myself for you know, 18 hours and then Hello, I've just got to eat whatever I want. Yeah. So I actually started my little fasting journey. Dr. Valter Longo his book and he's got the pro lawn right there kit. So I did, you know, I listened to his book, I forget the title of the book, but I listen to his book, I did it three months of the thing. But I did exactly what you just said, like, I was like, I'm gonna test fasting without doing anything else to my diet. And in their little packet, they're like, on day six, when you're done with your fast you have to eat you know, this, this and this, like, screw that I'm eating everything.
Unknown Speaker 41:33
Yeah, this Merry Go. So you're, you're a perfect example of what human beings are like, like, that's what we do. We don't we don't go oh, I'll just have a little blueberries ease back into it. Do some wild caught salmon boiled like, No, we're gonna eat a frickin burger because we're starving. Yeah, I've seen some of the research now on Ramadan. Right? Because during Ramadan, and what they're finding is exactly what you said is that people are just feasting, right before and right after. And so they're not seeing the benefits that maybe some of these other research studies are saying, which is also of interest to me. So I want to be respectful of your time here. I don't want to wrap up without kind of a little bit of, you know, what do people do so not specifically, but what are kind of some of the general topics that you have your clients do or that you, you know, things you think about for clients.
Unknown Speaker 42:25
So let's just pretend that the client doesn't have SIBO, for example, or like an underlying issue that really should be addressed clinically.
Unknown Speaker 42:36
Always start with balancing out the diet. So protein, carbs, veggie at every meal, I don't see people eating the right amount of protein for their body and Protein is essential for your immune system, it's essential for the integrity of your gut lining. So consistency with balanced meals, more omega threes, you know, in our Western diet, we have this imbalance of these Omega sixes and the Omega threes, we have way too many Omega sixes, not enough omega threes, so more wild caught fish, flaxseed, chia seed walnuts, those types of foods need to be we need to bring those up to reduce inflammation and also increase diversity of the gut microbiome.
Unknown Speaker 43:21
Reducing stress as much as you can absolutely. Vitamin D deficiency. I see this a ton. So we really need to be checking vitamin D levels. Because if your vitamin D is low, you're going to be at higher risk for heart disease. IBS IBD. imbalance in the microbiome hormone imbalance. Vitamin D is it's responsible for so many different things.
Unknown Speaker 43:47
What else would I say movement, I mean movement in a way that really aligns with your body. If you are working a nine to five, you have six kids and you are just stressed all the time. It's probably not going to benefit your gut to be adding more intense exercise onto that. So doing things like yoga, meditation, light movement to help stimulate the bowels.
Unknown Speaker 44:15
Else diversifying the diet so adding in more probiotic rich foods, things like kefir, sauerkraut, kimchi, miso, those all are natural food sources of probiotics and can be excellent for the gut. Some of my clients will take probiotics supplements and those can also be really beneficial for some
Unknown Speaker 44:37
What else do you want me to keep going? I can keep that's good. I'm glad you mentioned movement because that's kind of like from our end that's our that's our passion is what is the right prescription of movement for the working adults because it's probably not the same exercise prescription as their favorite bodybuilder on YouTube or their favorite athlete right because that's all those people are doing where you're
Unknown Speaker 45:00
Living this other life? Where do you think and again, we'll try to wrap up quick here. But where do you think sleep fits into that? Because
Unknown Speaker 45:07
oh my gosh, I have seen. So overrated I do want to come back to, to your point about the physical activity, the research that I've seen too much, you see an imbalance of gut bacteria in a negative way, just the right amount, you see the perfect balance and gut bacteria. So just to tell people like you really can overdo it, and it will show up in your gut health. How are you finding?
Unknown Speaker 45:34
I'm sorry, they're looking at the nose. Okay. They're looking at so they have kind of a standard of like, what is the healthy balance of, you know, bacteria in a person's gut? And what is what levels are of high levels are associated with negative outcomes? And so they're saying, okay, these people who exercise this many days a week actually had lower levels of beneficial bacteria and higher levels of opportunistic bacteria, and then vice versa. That makes sense. Do you have any do you have any recall of what that volume or intensity was? Oh, no, I'll dig it up, though. I mean, it's not it's not that I won't be digging much because I referenced it a lot. So I'll send that to you. I can't remember if they specified exactly how much time but I will Yeah, I'll send it to you. Sleep is huge. I mean, the the hormone melatonin even acts as an antioxidant and it's really good for gut health and motility. But I've seen clients make all the dietary change, address any underlying gut imbalances, do all the things but if their sleep is not good, that's going to impact your cortisol. Cortisol impacts the gut that's going to impact your eating behaviors, that's gonna impact the gut. Your sleep is crucial. I mean, that is that is your restorative time when you talk about fasting when we sleep that is like our fast those really cool, beneficial, you know, biohacking things those happen when we sleep, and it's, I'll talk about it like a Zamboni to clients, you've got like a Zamboni going through in the middle of a hockey game, right to clear off the ice. When you're sleeping that's happening in your brain. You're clearing away plaque and things that are built up from the day, same for your gut, you need to have rest for your gut things to clear away the debris from the food that UV in to prevent you from getting small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. So sleep is so important. I mean, it is very much underrated. And I think we should talk about it more. Yeah, yeah, I've gotten very interesting to that. I think, you know, part of me saying, Okay, some of my health issues seem to have gotten worse as I've gotten older, is that because I'm getting older is it because I'm not sleeping, because I'm working and doing this and doing that. And then the other thing we've been talking about with our clients all the time is, morning workouts are also super popular, right? Like, get up at five and get your workout in before, you know, at what point is waking up at 430 in the morning to get a five o'clock workout in almost a disadvantage. You know, assuming you're not going to bed at nine o'clock or whatever, eight o'clock the night before. You know, where is that line of you need to get your exercise in, you need to get your movement in. But I don't think it can be at the cost of your sleep. Because otherwise you're just cooking on both ends of the candle and eventually something happens. Yeah, I'm sure you've heard of the book. Why we sleep by Matthew Walker?
Unknown Speaker 48:32
Yeah, great book. And, you know, I wear a whoop. So this is I'm big into like recovery. Oh, there you go.
Unknown Speaker 48:41
Are you paying for your 4.0 still, because no, I got it. Oh, my gosh, all right. I lost. I lost my other one because so I was actually just talking about this. The other one, I felt like the battery was dying all the time. And I've ever remember to charge it. And I hated it. And I ended up losing it. And then they sent me the 4.0 because I had the membership. And I love it. Yeah, I think during the pandemic everyone became interested in or something but they I've been waiting for the 4.0 for months, and I'm so excited to get it because it's been it's been a game changer. I mean, even when I had COVID It told me I had COVID before I knew I had COVID My respiratory rate was through the roof. And I was like but I feel fine. I just ran seven miles like really interesting, but I'm obsessed with recovery. And this is a great tool and you know, I look at my REM sleep every night I look at my deep sleep every night and you can only like your body can definitely adapt to you know, get a certain amount of REM sleep in a shorter amount of time if you have to if you get in a routine of like less sleep, but your body can only take that for so long and you really can't make up for it. So I always tell my clients I say if you have to choose between working out and getting more sleep, choose sleep. There's no reason to put your body in a more inflammatory state. You know you're not no matter what your goals are. If you want to get a leaner body
Unknown Speaker 50:00
You need to sleep more because you need to rest and recover. So it's never worth it, you know, for the most part for for people that do that, and I trust me, I have that mentality. But back when I've learned the hard way, yeah, we've been trying to couch it as performance versus health, right? If if you're training for performance, you know, maybe you can see where that need to sacrifice a little bit maybe comes in. But if you're just trying to be healthy, I don't think you can win. I don't think you can win if you're not getting the sleep. I like that's, that's perfect. Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned it that way. Well, I think that's a good place to wrap up. Again, I just want to make sure we stay on time here as best we can. I usually try to wrap up with what do you think? What do you think you're going to be most interested in this time next year?
Unknown Speaker 50:49
Honestly, I think I'm still going to be interested in the gut microbiome, I think the research is only going to continue to become, you know, more in depth and more practical about what we can do. So I think what I'll be doing from an application standpoint with my clients, and the care that I'll be able to give, I believe, will only enhance over the year, I guess, I think that's probably the best description. And I'm excited to see where it goes. Because we're doing like fecal microbial transplants. And, you know, that's, that's where it's at right now. So I hope that maybe one day, maybe in a year, who knows, I'll be able to, you know, better better help my clients with those tools that we're seeing in the research. Yeah, I forget when I first heard about it, but I was like, That's so crazy. And then you're like, Well, wait, they're showing some pretty insane results with this. Yeah. And it's like, it makes sense. But just the concept of it. Obviously, people are thinking, How do you How does that work? You just, you know, you know, you get the gist. You have someone else's fecal transplanted into your body. And you know, it only makes sense that that would be the most simple way to have someone's gut. Better your own health. I mean, really crazy, though. Yeah, I know. It's wild. But it's cool. It's cool.
Unknown Speaker 52:10
Well, hey, I really appreciate you doing this. This was awesome. I wanted to talk to you so much more about insulin and diabetes and and how cannabis fits into that whole equation. But maybe we'll have if we get the opportunity, we'll do it again sometime. I would love that. I'm happy to come on for another episode. This was a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you. And if people want to learn more about the comp, because you have a ton of content on your website, and obviously you have your own podcast as well. Where can people find information out about you and kind of find that dig that up on their own for now? Yep, thank you nutrition rewired.com. I will say this is something like I'm going to brag about this because you know, you can hire me one on one. But I've had people who have said they've just listened to my podcast, follow my content, read my blog post, and they significantly felt better from a gut health perspective. So take advantage of that free information. And always reach out if you have any questions. I love hearing from people or connecting with people or hearing your own experiences. But this was super fun. Nick, thank you so much for having me on. Thank you. Yeah, I hope we can do it again some sometime soon. Absolutely. Thanks.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
